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The Ky Fan Norms and Beyond: Dual Norms and Combinations for Matrix Optimization

Published: December 10, 2025 | arXiv ID: 2512.09678v1

By: Alexey Kravatskiy , Ivan Kozyrev , Nikolai Kozlov and more

Potential Business Impact:

Makes AI learn better and faster.

Business Areas:
A/B Testing Data and Analytics

In this article, we explore the use of various matrix norms for optimizing functions of weight matrices, a crucial problem in training large language models. Moving beyond the spectral norm underlying the Muon update, we leverage duals of the Ky Fan $k$-norms to introduce a family of Muon-like algorithms we name Fanions, which are closely related to Dion. By working with duals of convex combinations of the Ky Fan $k$-norms with either the Frobenius norm or the $l_\infty$ norm, we construct the families of F-Fanions and S-Fanions, respectively. Their most prominent members are F-Muon and S-Muon. We complement our theoretical analysis with an extensive empirical study of these algorithms across a wide range of tasks and settings, demonstrating that F-Muon and S-Muon consistently match Muon's performance, while outperforming vanilla Muon on a synthetic linear least squares problem.

Country of Origin
🇷🇺 Russian Federation

Page Count
31 pages

Category
Mathematics:
Optimization and Control